so far the score is lebanon 1 palestine 1 and the whole world against us. UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL GUYS.

PALESTINIANS AREN’T OUR ENEMIES.

WE HAVE LEADERS WHO KEEP DISTRACTING US WITH HIZBOLLAH AND PALESTINIAN CAMPS. OKAY, THERE ARE ISSUES THERE WHICH DO HAVE SOLUTIONS.

Very witty indeed! I really don’t intend to lump all of the Christians in Lebanon together, and I know that it’s not the case. Like I said, there were many Christians on the left who defended and still defend our rights to this day. And I also agree the PLO leadership made some horrendous decisions that harmed the Palestinians, in Lebanon and elsewhere.

In terms of employment of refugees, at least you can be pragmatic and understand the economic and social realities of the situation, unlike many others on here who tend to stick to a very inflexible position and cannot seem to fathom reality.

And, my friend Walid, I don’t think Arafat made that comment. From my understanding, which I could be wrong, it was made by George Habash, PFLP Christian. Dissappointing to me even, but true.

With that being said, I will be visiting Lebanon for the first time this summer (don’t worry I won’t be staying!), and I will be staying in Jounieh, so I will let you know if I miraculously see a map and road directly to Jerusalem there.

Thanks,
Nader

Maybe if Fatah had balls, or Hamas had IRANIAN AND SYRIAN MONEY AND WEAPONS, we could fire out katyushas at Israel. But if you haven’t noticed, we don’t get weaponry or cash. The shabab in Gaza are shooting Qassams… do you even know what a Qassam is? It’s a crude HOMEMADE rocket. Before you go comparing your resistance to ours, you must make a realization of the different situations they both are in. Do I go around claiming Hamas defeated Israel because they pulled out of Gaza? Absolutely not. And Israel can once more, like they can and WILL in Gaza and Lebanon, if they choose, run over the South and take it for good.

You are rewriting history by unjustly dismissing the Lebanese and Palestinian resistance against the Israelis in 1982. That’s probably because you are actively ignoring certain historical truths, for your own propagandistic benefit. While East Beirut was protected by the Israelis and was run like a military authoritarian regime, West Beirut had a pluralistic, non-sectarian, and nationalist alliance of the PLO-LNM, which fought admirably against the Israeli attack on Beirut and was able to withstand repeated attempts at overrunning the city before it was finally taken. What exactly was anyone else, other than the PLO-LNM resistance, doing to defend the city, huh? The limited capabilities of the resistance was able to fight, rather than cowardly flee or take cover, against a militarily and technologically superior adversary which had no regard for civilian human life. What were most of the right wing sectarian militias doing at the time, securing the rest of the country for the Israelis! Palestinians and Lebanese alike lost their lives defending Beirut, a city which is the pride of the Arab World. And you just sat by and cheered when the Israelis took it, and then you participated in the massacring of its civilians.

The Palestinians did take sides in the war, and this is obviously something that was unfortunate. But it is understandable. The Lebanese National Movement was struggling for their natural rights, and saw a natural ally in the Palestinians, NOT the other way around. Wasn’t it the LNM which saw an advantage in having the Palestinians on their side and manipulated them into fighting alongside them? Both the LNM and the PLO, may I add, had many Christian leaders, which I don’t believe was true the other way around. Wasn’t it the massacre of Muslims, both Lebanese and non-Lebanese, that sucked in the PLO to Lebanon’s ALREADY simmering sectarian war (Black Saturday, Karantina, Tel El Zaatar, etc…)? The crux of the issue is the splits within your society, and you try to make the crux the Palestinians themselves, which is unjust and completely untrue.

Of course there were many Christians in Lebanon who defended the Palestinian cause. Does that justify the SLA or the LF blindly massacring civilians? Does that justify barring 10% of your population from becoming active members of society, or even to seek a decent wage?

And trust me, I do not hold ANY of the Arabs in high regards, especially Jordan and Egypt, when it comes to supporting the Palestinians during the catastrophe that was unwittingly bestowed upon them. Do you think the Lebanese would have survived millions of European Jews, after WWII, coming in and methodically cleansing your land? Why attack the integrity of the Palestinians when they have had to, on their own, struggle against a Western-backed imperialist, militaristic, and racist ideology? Is it perhaps because you agree with that ideology?

WE DON’T WANT THE SHIA TO WANT OUR NATURALIZATION. WE DON’T WANT NATURALIZATION. WE DON’T WANT THE LEBANESE CITIZENSHIP. But at least the Shia can defend their country when an enemy attacks them. And at least Aoun has the balls to support them in their rightful cause. Neither Aoun or Hezbollah or Berri or Jumblatt or Hariri for that matter want naturalization for the Palestinians, and neither do we. I am talking about BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS. It’s only right, my friend, especially if you want to call yourselves a democracy and want to show the world how “western” and “progressive” you are.

Thank you for your “warm” welcome. As for the Christian Palestinians, we don’t have this sectarian divide which so pronounces your society. Go ask 99% of the Christians in all of Palestine and anywhere else. The leaders of the PFLP and the DFLP were both Christians. Our most famous intellectual was a Christian. Does this mean there aren’t problems every now and then, of course not. All of us Arabs operate like that unfortunately. But we certainly don’t exhibit the same hatred and racism that you do.

First it’s the Palestinians, then the Syrians, then the Iranians, then still the Palestinians. I’m not saying there hasn’t been outside meddling in your affairs, which again is very unfortunate, but have you guys ever looked in the mirror and realized YOU are the problem? Any self-reflection in the deep-rooted divisions in YOUR society that you never managed to solve when you started your republic? Like Tony A says, you treat everyone like shit and don’t expect them to arm and defend themselves. Trust me, we don’t want to stay.. But we certainly have no where to go and we deserve to have HALF-DECENT LIVES.

BTW, you’re also speaking to a half-Gazan Christian, who still has family in Gaza, and they may not be members of Hamas but they have ALWAYS defended their country against Zionists. So don’t ever question that and don’t ever call me boy.

Nader

love to all and constantin hope you enjoyed your own medicine so you can DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU HAVE DONE UNTO YOURSELF.

MY USERNAME IS TONY A

but when i have to come down to the level of the person posting some rude comments (you) one must give the other’s own medicine for that person to see how i feel.

this is he comment you left for and about me in other posting and see how you would like it if that was posted about you personally.

THIS IS HOW CONSTANTIN THINKS DEBATING SHOULD BE LIKE:

Reply to this comment Very well said Ghassan. As for the other chameleons on this site who hide behind names that mislead the readers on their allegiance like Tony A (or Tony Ali) they understand Walid beyk because they are like him with 2 names, 2 faces, 2 positions, etc…

WELL NOW THAT YOU KNOW HOW IT FEELS YOU WILL REFRAIN FROM FUTURE PERSONAL ATTACKS COS WE CAN ALL BE RUDE AND NON-PROFESSIONAL.

YOU STARTED THIS MESS CONSTANTIN COS I NEVER ONCE IN MY WHOLE POSTINGS ON THIS SITE DID I GET PERSONAL.

I REST MY CASE AND GHASSAN, I WOULD NEVER DREAM TO TELL THE PALESTINIANS TO LEAVE MY COUNTRY BRO. 7ARAM YA 3AALAM. WE TREAT PEOPLE LIKE GARBAGE THEN WE WONDER WHY HIZBOLLAH EXISTS AND WHY PALESTINIANS HAVE WEAPONS.

I thought this discussion ended, apparently not.

Every one has his opinion and entitled to it. However, to come back and start calling me “names” because my opinion does not coincide with yours or with any one else’s, this is not the civilized discussion that you’re talking about.

Just to let you and others know I do not respond to people who get personal and start insulting me on this site or anywhere else. You say: “There should never be any personal attacks here and this should be a civilized discussion” and then you call me a: Bigot and a racist…Gee I over-estimated earlier your civilized manners.

I have my point of view on Lebanese politics and society as much as any other LEBANESE has, you don’t. What is happening in Palestine should be your concern, not what is happening in Lebanon.

Yes, I am for Lebanon and the Lebanese first and foremost, and if this translates to racist in your mind, well too bad, I cannot help it. I am pretty sure that for you Palestine and the Palestinians are first and foremost, should I call you racist?

After what the Palestinians did in Lebanon in the 60s, 70s, 80s and up til now with Nahr el Bared and other incidents, I do not want to hear of any rights for them in Lebanon.

In my country, we have plenty of youth who cannot find work and are leaving to work in the Gulf, Europe or even in Africa and you want me to grant 0.5 million Palestinians the right to work and buy property? No way!

Then you talk about my remarks about mixed marriages ?! I don’t know what you’re talking about!…

Finally, I would like to let you know that I am not a Kataeb or FL or a member of any political party in Lebanon, which is anyways non of your concern, I do not live in a village but in Ras-Beirut, again non of your concern, and have a post-secondary education from AUB.

In Lebanon no major decision is taken unless we have a concensus on it, so the Palestinian refugee’s situation, however tragic it might be, definitely does not have a consensus and they will not get any rights in Lebanon.

I don’t think you are going to convince me nor I am going to convince you. Let’s leave it at that.

You are spot on my friend. Constantin, despite perhaps having some potential to understand the realities of the situation, has a deep-rooted sentiment of racism and sectarianism that is quite evident in his remarks about mixed marriages, Lebanese politics and society, Palestinian refugees, etc… It is also, may I add, very easy to “100% support” the Palestinian cause, but very hypocritical to be vehementely opposed to the very victims who are the crux and backbone of the Palestinian cause!

And I also agree that I would like to know more specifics about Walid’s stances. And it is interesting to note that most Lebanese and most of their political parties are in acceptance of granting the Palestinian refugees all their rights, short of naturalization. However the parties that continuously torpedo these developments are the LF and the Phalange, who like Constantin, cannot escape the mindset of their bigotry. I can only hope they will progress in their viewpoints through simply looking at the realities.

It also angers me that an Arab (even if he doesn’t believe he is one) would spew such racist comments against his fellow Arab, and even fellow Lebanese. There should never be personal attacks, as I assume this is a civilized discussed.

History may have been bitter, but I just simply cannot fathom how anyone could just say “Just LEAVE.” It’s as if he’s completely oblivious to what’s going on outside of his village.

Thanks Tony,
Nader