Ya Libnan

Al Liwa: STL will announce indictment between June 20 and July 5

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Al Liwa newspaper quoted judicial sources   in the Hague as saying  the Special Tribunal for Lebanon (STL), will announce the  indictment over the assassination of former PM Rafik Hariri  anytime between June 20 and July 5.

STL was created in 2007 by a UN Security Council resolution to find and try the killers of Hariri, who was assassinated in a massive car bombing on the Beirut seafront on February 14, 2005 that also killed 22 other people.

The Special Tribunal for Lebanon is reportedly poised to indict Hezbollah members in the Hariri murder.

The Iranian and Syrian backed Hezbollah brought down PM Saad Hariri’s government on January 12 over the STL’s imminent indictment .

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27 responses to “Al Liwa: STL will announce indictment between June 20 and July 5”

  1. VeryLost Avatar
    VeryLost

    Can someone tell me what they think of
    The stl .. Is it bull***t ? Or can it be trusted ??

    1. kareemthehippy Avatar
      kareemthehippy

      I think the STL is pretty legit, but at the same time, it’s 100% obvious they’ll charge Hezbollah and Syria.  While I think those charges are correct, the people who oppose it think the UN will always be against Syria/hezbollah and be biased towards Israel/US..which is true, despite tens of resolutions condemning and pushing Israel to act on their disgusting actions that have occured to the Palestinians over the years. I think Israel may have been over some of Lebanon’s assasinations throughout history, but in the case of Hariri and co, I think it’s Syria, but that’s just my two cents.  I hope that somewhat helped?

      1. VeryLost Avatar
        VeryLost

        thanks for trying to explain it to me. Though i am still a little confused, i have read different sides of the story, some wanna say israel was behind it, and some say the syria/hezbo..and everytime i read arguements for both cases it seems believable..lol so i dont really know who to trust.

        Also i was hoping to find out if lebanese people support this stl or not

        1. kareemthehippy Avatar
          kareemthehippy

          It’s divided among the Lebanese people. Lebanon will always be divided 50-50 or 49-51 or something like that..that’s the scenario..March 14 will always blame Hezbo/Syria/Iran, and March 8 will blame Israel/USA/Europe.  It’s programmed in their brains, thus in their supporters’ brains too. You will notice the “sheep”-like mentailty of some of the people here. haha

      2. VeryLost Avatar
        VeryLost

        thanks for trying to explain it to me. Though i am still a little confused, i have read different sides of the story, some wanna say israel was behind it, and some say the syria/hezbo..and everytime i read arguements for both cases it seems believable..lol so i dont really know who to trust.

        Also i was hoping to find out if lebanese people support this stl or not

      3. eblashko Avatar
        eblashko

        That’s funny, because here in Israel we think the UN is the most anti-Zionist anti-Israel joke of an organization that focuses all of their energy and time trying to punish us for simply existing instead of punishing those who actually commit real crimes. With 22 Arab countries and 56 Muslim countries, Plus the usually-anti-Israel gang of idiots in the developing world like African and South American countries, and you have an automatic majority who can declare the world is flat if they want to.

        The proof – China is doing the exact same thing in Tibet and East Turkistan that Israel is doing in the West Bank; i.e. occupied countries that had been independent in the 40’s, settling millions of Han Chinese there, and even worse than Israel, suppressing cultural right of the Tibetans and Uighurs. But with hundreds of resolutions against Israel, and not even one against China, you have your answer about the fair and biased UN.

        Keep in mind, I disagree with the settlement enterprise also. I think it’s counterproductive for peace. But I’m just pointing out the obvious hypocrisy of the world when it comes to Israel.

        1. kareemthehippy Avatar
          kareemthehippy

          Really? I don’t think that’s the case, man. Anti-Israel? Alot more would be happening if the UN was anti-Israel. Is it critical of its actions, human rights and international law violations? Of course it is. Remember, criticizing does not mean deligitamizing.  I don’t view the world as whether there are more Arab countries to Latin or Muslims to Christians.  It’s like complaining about the high Asian populations. Why are there more Chinese than Lebanese?  I don’t view it as cynically as you do.  It’s just a matter of following certain laws which applies equally to all countries. UN has alot of work to do..but to your point of it being Anti-Israel? I don’t think so. It follows the two-state solution and it calls for 1967 borders, leaving the illegally occupied Shebaa farms in Lebanon, Golan Heights, ending the illegal maritime blockade, and pushing settlements back..which I think is a GREAT step forward in achieving peace

      4. eblashko Avatar
        eblashko

        The UN works on a basis of majority rules, not on a basis of justice rules. I’m not complaining about there being more Arabs in the world than Jews. Obviously it’s the case, and who cares. But in the UN, there are 22 Arab countries and 56 Muslim countries. They vote together as a bloc. So you will automatically have a 56:1 margin of voting any time a resolution is brought to motion. This happened in the 70’s when Zionism was declared racism by the UNGA, but the bloc failed to even bring up other instances of nationalism, like pan-Arabism, which has never even had a mention in the UN, but has caused the deaths of many more Kurds in Iraq than Zionism has caused to Arabs in Palestine.

        And for you, who claims to be so much on the side of justice, where is your voice against China, for the allegations I wrote about below? How can you justify to yourself Lebanon having relations with China and not Israel? If human rights are so important to you, you should be equally offended, no? But the truth is, human rights is a mask for the real reason for anti-Zionism: anti-Semitism (or anti-Hebrewism in your case, as Lebanese are Semites too).

        I’m not saying that Israel is a saint. But I think that there are many more countries in the world that a far worse. Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Sudan, Serbia all commit genocides on the scale of millions. China and Russia settle the lands they conquered with their own people, like Siberia, Tibet, and East Turkistan. Turkey, Iran, and Syria suppresses its Kurdish minority’s culture and language. Women in Saudi Arabia aren’t allowed to drive. And in all of those cases the victims weren’t at all hostile to the agressor, which is the opposite case here, where they continue to try to kill us, and not the other way around. 

        Yet I’d be willing to bet that you’ve never even complained about any of the aforementioned violations, or about Lebanon having diplomatic relations with any of the violators. That’s hypocrisy, my friend. And because you choose to be so passionately against the Hebrew state and don’t even acknowledge the suffering of others, then you my friend, are a racist. 

        It’s not your fault. You’re Lebanese. Like most of the world, you were brought up to hate Israel. But try to look beyond it. Try to treat us on the same scale as everyone else. Because no matter how much you may try to deny it, you don’t. 

        As far as the Sheba, not even one Lebanese politician has ever offered peace in exchange for the Sheba farms. So before you go criticizing Israel for occupying it, why not criticize Lebanon for not giving us any reason to give it back. 

        1. kareemthehippy Avatar
          kareemthehippy

          Elblashko, enough with your generalizations. You don’t even know me.

          I criticize Israel, but you don’t know what else I criticize? Did you know me when I took the streets with hundreds of colleagues marching against Mubarak or Ben Ali? Have you seen all of my comments criticizing Syria and Hezbollah?

          I thought you thought better of me man. You think I only apply human rights violations to Israel? I apply them to ALL countries that violate them.  Israel is just the current subject matter.  How am I anti-Hebrew when my university roommate is a Hebrew speaking American Jew who is one of my best friends?

          Once again, I’m not disregarding these countries. In fact, it was the atrocities of the Rwandan genocide and Milosovic’s disgusting actions that inspired me to go into this field of study.  I’m not ignoring or disregarding them, but they’re simply not part of the current conversation.

          Elblashko, I don’t think you read any of my comments. Any person on YaLibnan who has known me since I started posting stuff no here a year ago, knows I’ve ranted, insulted, and complained about every single Lebanese politician that has been mentioned.  Therefore, I am not a hypocrite. 

          Not acknowledging the suffering of others? That’s really insulting man. You don’t even know me, man. 

          I am only a racist based on your generalizations, but not on your facts.  Hell, even though I disagree with alot of your comments and your lack of sympathy on some things I put my heart into, i’d never call you a racist, Eblashko.

          Brought up to hate Israel? You don’t even know my parents. They always told me to ignore all the anti-semitism that exists in lebanon and to never criticize an ethnic group or religion, but a political ideology which puts a negative spin on it…they told me to never support extremism.  This is why I never insult religions or ethnic groups. Criticizing a political ideology is therefore not racist.  You have no right to generalize my upbringing nor generalize the upbringing of an entire region.  The Middle East is NOWHERE near perfect, but it’s not as barbaric as you put it out to be.

          I have many Jewish and Israeli friends who I treat and respect equally.  You can assume all you want, but you don’t know me. The only person here who truly knows me and can judge me is @Hannibal:disqus .

          On your last comment, like I said, I always criticize Lebanon’s politicians and for their lack of action to regain that territory.  Well, if Israel is the only democracy in the middle east as many say and if it champions human rights and justice, then it would return the land ebcause it violates international law.

          *I’m really disappointed with your response. We’ve had lots of constructive and interesting debates, and I do respect you, despite our differences.  To be called a racist and to be insulted based on my upbringing based on the fact that I’m Lebanese and that I’ve been “taught to hate Israel”.  That’s disgusting. I always talk about how I judge people based on teh content of their character and not their background.  You don’t even know me, yet you make all these statements about me based on a forum that talks about LEBANESE politics.  If this were an international political forum I’d be talking LOTS about the Russians and Chinese.

        2. Hannibal Avatar
          Hannibal

          I know Kareem very well and he is really a good person. He has friends from all facets of humanity and sects. He is a peace-loving individual and did not deserve your comments at all.
          It is also not fair to lump all the Lebanese into one category and for a learned person like yourself you should know who pulls the strings in Lebanon. I give you a hint: It is not the Lebanese people…

      5. eblashko Avatar
        eblashko

        The UN works on a basis of majority rules, not on a basis of justice rules. I’m not complaining about there being more Arabs in the world than Jews. Obviously it’s the case, and who cares. But in the UN, there are 22 Arab countries and 56 Muslim countries. They vote together as a bloc. So you will automatically have a 56:1 margin of voting any time a resolution is brought to motion. This happened in the 70’s when Zionism was declared racism by the UNGA, but the bloc failed to even bring up other instances of nationalism, like pan-Arabism, which has never even had a mention in the UN, but has caused the deaths of many more Kurds in Iraq than Zionism has caused to Arabs in Palestine.

        And for you, who claims to be so much on the side of justice, where is your voice against China, for the allegations I wrote about below? How can you justify to yourself Lebanon having relations with China and not Israel? If human rights are so important to you, you should be equally offended, no? But the truth is, human rights is a mask for the real reason for anti-Zionism: anti-Semitism (or anti-Hebrewism in your case, as Lebanese are Semites too).

        I’m not saying that Israel is a saint. But I think that there are many more countries in the world that a far worse. Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Sudan, Serbia all commit genocides on the scale of millions. China and Russia settle the lands they conquered with their own people, like Siberia, Tibet, and East Turkistan. Turkey, Iran, and Syria suppresses its Kurdish minority’s culture and language. Women in Saudi Arabia aren’t allowed to drive. And in all of those cases the victims weren’t at all hostile to the agressor, which is the opposite case here, where they continue to try to kill us, and not the other way around. 

        Yet I’d be willing to bet that you’ve never even complained about any of the aforementioned violations, or about Lebanon having diplomatic relations with any of the violators. That’s hypocrisy, my friend. And because you choose to be so passionately against the Hebrew state and don’t even acknowledge the suffering of others, then you my friend, are a racist. 

        It’s not your fault. You’re Lebanese. Like most of the world, you were brought up to hate Israel. But try to look beyond it. Try to treat us on the same scale as everyone else. Because no matter how much you may try to deny it, you don’t. 

        As far as the Sheba, not even one Lebanese politician has ever offered peace in exchange for the Sheba farms. So before you go criticizing Israel for occupying it, why not criticize Lebanon for not giving us any reason to give it back. 

        1. kareemthehippy Avatar
          kareemthehippy

          Elblashko, enough with your generalizations. You don’t even know me.

          I criticize Israel, but you don’t know what else I criticize? Did you know me when I took the streets with hundreds of colleagues marching against Mubarak or Ben Ali? Have you seen all of my comments criticizing Syria and Hezbollah?

          I thought you thought better of me man. You think I only apply human rights violations to Israel? I apply them to ALL countries that violate them.  Israel is just the current subject matter.  How am I anti-Hebrew when my university roommate is a Hebrew speaking American Jew who is one of my best friends?

          Once again, I’m not disregarding these countries. In fact, it was the atrocities of the Rwandan genocide and Milosovic’s disgusting actions that inspired me to go into this field of study.  I’m not ignoring or disregarding them, but they’re simply not part of the current conversation.

          Elblashko, I don’t think you read any of my comments. Any person on YaLibnan who has known me since I started posting stuff no here a year ago, knows I’ve ranted, insulted, and complained about every single Lebanese politician that has been mentioned.  Therefore, I am not a hypocrite. 

          Not acknowledging the suffering of others? That’s really insulting man. You don’t even know me, man. 

          I am only a racist based on your generalizations, but not on your facts.  Hell, even though I disagree with alot of your comments and your lack of sympathy on some things I put my heart into, i’d never call you a racist, Eblashko.

          Brought up to hate Israel? You don’t even know my parents. They always told me to ignore all the anti-semitism that exists in lebanon and to never criticize an ethnic group or religion, but a political ideology which puts a negative spin on it…they told me to never support extremism.  This is why I never insult religions or ethnic groups. Criticizing a political ideology is therefore not racist.  You have no right to generalize my upbringing nor generalize the upbringing of an entire region.  The Middle East is NOWHERE near perfect, but it’s not as barbaric as you put it out to be.

          I have many Jewish and Israeli friends who I treat and respect equally.  You can assume all you want, but you don’t know me. The only person here who truly knows me and can judge me is @Hannibal:disqus .

          On your last comment, like I said, I always criticize Lebanon’s politicians and for their lack of action to regain that territory.  Well, if Israel is the only democracy in the middle east as many say and if it champions human rights and justice, then it would return the land ebcause it violates international law.

          *I’m really disappointed with your response. We’ve had lots of constructive and interesting debates, and I do respect you, despite our differences.  To be called a racist and to be insulted based on my upbringing based on the fact that I’m Lebanese and that I’ve been “taught to hate Israel”.  That’s disgusting. I always talk about how I judge people based on teh content of their character and not their background.  You don’t even know me, yet you make all these statements about me based on a forum that talks about LEBANESE politics.  If this were an international political forum I’d be talking LOTS about the Russians and Chinese.

      6. eblashko Avatar
        eblashko

        Sorry if the last message was harsh. I didn’t mean to offend or upset you at all. I don’t doubt your true commitment to human rights or believe that you have any ill feelings against my people or any people. I only wrote what I wrote because based on your previous posts you seem like a level-headed guy, who has said that you’d be willing to pressure your government, through protests or whatever, to take certain actions.

        You may be against some of the policies of the Israeli government. So am I and so are may other patriotic Israelis, as I’m sure you know. But that doesn’t mean that I think all Israeli citizens should be collectively punished. You’ve said in previous posts that if Israel were to give up the territories, then you’d pressure your government to make peace with Israel. But why wait? What do Israeli policies or disputed territories have to do with me or you? Neither of us live there. You accuse me of generalizations when I am being generalized against by Lebanon by not being allowed to come visit your beautiful country simply because of my citizenship.

        And as far as how you were raised in Lebanon, I didn’t mean any insult to your parents, but just to point out the overwhelming atmosphere of hatred towards Israel in Lebanon as a whole. You said yourself that your parents tried to protect you from prevalent anti-Semitism in your country. Like here for example, I like to consider myself pretty progressive, both pro-Israel and pro-Palestine, but sometimes, whenever a Palestinian terrorist commits an atrocity or another rocket bombards my country, I can’t even help but fall into the abyss of anti-Arab, populist fervor, and might catch myself thinking “ugh, those f*cking Arabs!” even for a second, before I remind myself that that kind of thinking, apart from not only being disgusting, won’t bring the solution to the conflict any sooner. It’s not how I feel in my heart, but it’s an underlying substratum of the culture here, much like anti-Israel feelings in Lebanon, as your parents warned you.

        You know I think the core of this disagreement is our view of generalizations. In a previous post, you argued with me that not all Palestinians want to continue fighting, citing Darwish and Palestinians you’ve met as your example. And even though the majority of Palestinians, by voting for Hamas, demonstrated that they weren’t willing to make peace with Israel, you refuse to acknowledge the severity of the evil will of the many simply because of the goodwill of the few.

        You have to understand what I see. The world was pretty pro-Israel from the 40’s until the 90’s, and every single Israeli cabinet except one from the state’s inception until 1992 was left wing, pro-peace, and always willing to negotiate. It was Arafat who refused to negotiate. But then the second intifada happened (because Arafat refused the generous Camp David Proposal) and all of a sudden Israel, in the eyes of the world, became the bad guy, simply for doing the best it could to protect its citizens from a VERY REAL threat by suppressing an extremely violent and hostile populace. I was young, but I remember the shock, as every single friend we had in the world except America abandoned us on one end while Palestinians were blowing themselves up on buses on the other end. (I’m no psychologist, but I’d guess that this reminded people of the pogroms and the  holocaust, when the world was silent, and of the post-holocaust years, when the British wouldn’t let us return home to Israel even after the injustice and horror we’d suffered in the diaspora). This caused a huge, terrible, and ongoing rightward shift in Israeli public opinion, which in the face of what we percieve as unfair policy against us, continues to this day. Abbass’s rejection of Olmert’s proposal, which gave him everything he asked for ( ’67 borders, 1:1 swaps, and Jerusalem partition) was just the nail in the coffin.

        So before you “generalize” Israel as this terrible, evil thing, why don’t you ask yourself how Netanyahu was able to win the last election. How could we chose someone who is so blatantly against the prevailing world opinion about peace? What did he offer Israeli voters that Olmert didn’t deliver? Netanyahu’s message is simple and Lieberman’s even more simple. If the world turns their backs on you, then you turn you back on the world. The world praises us for withdrawing troops and settlers from Gaza, but are silent in the wake of over 8,000 rockets fired from Gaza, and then condemn us for trying to protect ourselves from those rockets. Israel felt betrayed, and voted accordingly, as any threatened animal would when pushed into a corner, and as Palestinians did when they voted for Hamas.

        You want to see some action on the ground towards peace? I’ve said it on this site a million times. Give the disillusioned  Israelis a reason to believe in it. Hit us with sanctions or boycotts, suicide or bus bombs, and then see how the country votes. Or give us with an outstretched hand, a promise of peace, a reason to stop being scared, and I promise you, you’ll like the results.

      7. eblashko Avatar
        eblashko

        Sorry if the last message was harsh. I didn’t mean to offend or upset you at all. I don’t doubt your true commitment to human rights or believe that you have any ill feelings against my people or any people. I only wrote what I wrote because based on your previous posts you seem like a level-headed guy, who has said that you’d be willing to pressure your government, through protests or whatever, to take certain actions.

        You may be against some of the policies of the Israeli government. So am I and so are may other patriotic Israelis, as I’m sure you know. But that doesn’t mean that I think all Israeli citizens should be collectively punished. You’ve said in previous posts that if Israel were to give up the territories, then you’d pressure your government to make peace with Israel. But why wait? What do Israeli policies or disputed territories have to do with me or you? Neither of us live there. You accuse me of generalizations when I am being generalized against by Lebanon by not being allowed to come visit your beautiful country simply because of my citizenship.

        And as far as how you were raised in Lebanon, I didn’t mean any insult to your parents, but just to point out the overwhelming atmosphere of hatred towards Israel in Lebanon as a whole. You said yourself that your parents tried to protect you from prevalent anti-Semitism in your country. Like here for example, I like to consider myself pretty progressive, both pro-Israel and pro-Palestine, but sometimes, whenever a Palestinian terrorist commits an atrocity or another rocket bombards my country, I can’t even help but fall into the abyss of anti-Arab, populist fervor, and might catch myself thinking “ugh, those f*cking Arabs!” even for a second, before I remind myself that that kind of thinking, apart from not only being disgusting, won’t bring the solution to the conflict any sooner. It’s not how I feel in my heart, but it’s an underlying substratum of the culture here, much like anti-Israel feelings in Lebanon, as your parents warned you.

        You know I think the core of this disagreement is our view of generalizations. In a previous post, you argued with me that not all Palestinians want to continue fighting, citing Darwish and Palestinians you’ve met as your example. And even though the majority of Palestinians, by voting for Hamas, demonstrated that they weren’t willing to make peace with Israel, you refuse to acknowledge the severity of the evil will of the many simply because of the goodwill of the few.

        You have to understand what I see. The world was pretty pro-Israel from the 40’s until the 90’s, and every single Israeli cabinet except one from the state’s inception until 1992 was left wing, pro-peace, and always willing to negotiate. It was Arafat who refused to negotiate. But then the second intifada happened (because Arafat refused the generous Camp David Proposal) and all of a sudden Israel, in the eyes of the world, became the bad guy, simply for doing the best it could to protect its citizens from a VERY REAL threat by suppressing an extremely violent and hostile populace. I was young, but I remember the shock, as every single friend we had in the world except America abandoned us on one end while Palestinians were blowing themselves up on buses on the other end. (I’m no psychologist, but I’d guess that this reminded people of the pogroms and the  holocaust, when the world was silent, and of the post-holocaust years, when the British wouldn’t let us return home to Israel even after the injustice and horror we’d suffered in the diaspora). This caused a huge, terrible, and ongoing rightward shift in Israeli public opinion, which in the face of what we percieve as unfair policy against us, continues to this day. Abbass’s rejection of Olmert’s proposal, which gave him everything he asked for ( ’67 borders, 1:1 swaps, and Jerusalem partition) was just the nail in the coffin.

        So before you “generalize” Israel as this terrible, evil thing, why don’t you ask yourself how Netanyahu was able to win the last election. How could we chose someone who is so blatantly against the prevailing world opinion about peace? What did he offer Israeli voters that Olmert didn’t deliver? Netanyahu’s message is simple and Lieberman’s even more simple. If the world turns their backs on you, then you turn you back on the world. The world praises us for withdrawing troops and settlers from Gaza, but are silent in the wake of over 8,000 rockets fired from Gaza, and then condemn us for trying to protect ourselves from those rockets. Israel felt betrayed, and voted accordingly, as any threatened animal would when pushed into a corner, and as Palestinians did when they voted for Hamas.

        You want to see some action on the ground towards peace? I’ve said it on this site a million times. Give the disillusioned  Israelis a reason to believe in it. Hit us with sanctions or boycotts, suicide or bus bombs, and then see how the country votes. Or give us with an outstretched hand, a promise of peace, a reason to stop being scared, and I promise you, you’ll like the results.

    2. Crossed Avatar
      Crossed

      I don’t think it can be trusted. It ruled out Israel right off the bat. How can you rule someone out before you start investigating? Especially a country at war with the one in question. There have also been many leaks to the media. All in all, I don’t think it can be trusted and I would much rather see a Lebanese inquiry instead of an international one.

  2. VeryLost Avatar
    VeryLost

    Can someone tell me what they think of
    The stl .. Is it bull***t ? Or can it be trusted ??

  3. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Can someone tell me what they think of
    The stl .. Is it bull***t ? Or can it be trusted ??

    1. Avatar
      Anonymous

      I think the STL is pretty legit, but at the same time, it’s 100% obvious they’ll charge Hezbollah and Syria.  While I think those charges are correct, the people who oppose it think the UN will always be against Syria/hezbollah and be biased towards Israel/US..which is true, despite tens of resolutions condemning and pushing Israel to act on their disgusting actions that have occured to the Palestinians over the years. I think Israel may have been over some of Lebanon’s assasinations throughout history, but in the case of Hariri and co, I think it’s Syria, but that’s just my two cents.  I hope that somewhat helped?

      1. Avatar
        Anonymous

        thanks for trying to explain it to me. Though i am still a little confused, i have read different sides of the story, some wanna say israel was behind it, and some say the syria/hezbo..and everytime i read arguements for both cases it seems believable..lol so i dont really know who to trust.

        Also i was hoping to find out if lebanese people support this stl or not

        1. Avatar
          Anonymous

          It’s divided among the Lebanese people. Lebanon will always be divided 50-50 or 49-51 or something like that..that’s the scenario..March 14 will always blame Hezbo/Syria/Iran, and March 8 will blame Israel/USA/Europe.  It’s programmed in their brains, thus in their supporters’ brains too. You will notice the “sheep”-like mentailty of some of the people here. haha

      2. Avatar
        Anonymous

         That’s funny, because here in Israel we think the UN is the most anti-Zionist anti-Israel joke of an organization that focuses all of their energy and time trying to punish us for simply existing instead of punishing those who actually commit real crimes. With 22 Arab countries and 56 Muslim countries, Plus the usually-anti-Israel gang of idiots in the developing world like African and South American countries, and you have an automatic majority who can declare the world is flat if they want to.

        1. Avatar
          Anonymous

          Really? I don’t think that’s the case, man. Anti-Israel? Alot more would be happening if the UN was anti-Israel. Is it critical of its actions, human rights and international law violations? Of course it is. Remember, criticizing does not mean deligitamizing.  I don’t view the world as whether there are more Arab countries to Latin or Muslims to Christians.  It’s like complaining about the high Asian populations. Why are there more Chinese than Lebanese?  I don’t view it as cynically as you do.  It’s just a matter of following certain laws which applies equally to all countries. UN has alot of work to do..but to your point of it being Anti-Israel? I don’t think so. It follows the two-state solution and it calls for 1967 borders, leaving the illegally occupied Shebaa farms in Lebanon, Golan Heights, ending the illegal maritime blockade, and pushing settlements back..which I think is a GREAT step forward in achieving peace

      3. Avatar
        Anonymous

        The UN works on a basis of majority rules, not on a basis of justice rules. I’m not complaining about there being more Arabs in the world than Jews. Obviously it’s the case, and who cares. But in the UN, there are 22 Arab countries and 56 Muslim countries. They vote together as a bloc. So you will automatically have a 56:1 margin of voting any time a resolution is brought to motion. This happened in the 70’s when Zionism was declared racism by the UNGA, but the bloc failed to even bring up other instances of nationalism, like pan-Arabism, which has never even had a mention in the UN, but has caused the deaths of many more Kurds in Iraq than Zionism has caused to Arabs in Palestine.

        And for you, who claims to be so much on the side of justice, where is your voice against China, for the allegations I wrote about below? How can you justify to yourself Lebanon having relations with China and not Israel? If human rights are so important to you, you should be equally offended, no? But the truth is, human rights is a mask for the real reason for anti-Zionism: anti-Semitism (or anti-Hebrewism in your case, as Lebanese are Semites too).

        I’m not saying that Israel is a saint. But I think that there are many more countries in the world that a far worse. Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Sudan, Serbia all commit genocides on the scale of millions. China and Russia settle the lands they conquered with their own people, like Siberia, Tibet, and East Turkistan. Turkey, Iran, and Syria suppresses its Kurdish minority’s culture and language. Women in Saudi Arabia aren’t allowed to drive. And in all of those cases the victims weren’t at all hostile to the agressor, which is the opposite case here, where they continue to try to kill us, and not the other way around. 

        Yet I’d be willing to bet that you’ve never even complained about any of the aforementioned violations, or about Lebanon having diplomatic relations with any of the violators. That’s hypocrisy, my friend. And because you choose to be so passionately against the Hebrew state and don’t even acknowledge the suffering of others, then you my friend, are a racist. 

        It’s not your fault. You’re Lebanese. Like most of the world, you were brought up to hate Israel. But try to look beyond it. Try to treat us on the same scale as everyone else. Because no matter how much you may try to deny it, you don’t. 

        As far as the Sheba, not even one Lebanese politician has ever offered peace in exchange for the Sheba farms. So before you go criticizing Israel for occupying it, why not criticize Lebanon for not giving us any reason to give it back. 

        1. Avatar
          Anonymous

          Elblashko, enough with your generalizations. You don’t even know me.

          I criticize Israel, but you don’t know what else I criticize? Did you know me when I took the streets with hundreds of colleagues marching against Mubarak or Ben Ali? Have you seen all of my comments criticizing Syria and Hezbollah?

          I thought you thought better of me man. You think I only apply human rights violations to Israel? I apply them to ALL countries that violate them.  Israel is just the current subject matter.  How am I anti-Hebrew when my university roommate is a Hebrew speaking American Jew who is one of my best friends?

          Once again, I’m not disregarding these countries. In fact, it was the atrocities of the Rwandan genocide and Milosovic’s disgusting actions that inspired me to go into this field of study.  I’m not ignoring or disregarding them, but they’re simply not part of the current conversation.

          Elblashko, I don’t think you read any of my comments. Any person on YaLibnan who has known me since I started posting stuff no here a year ago, knows I’ve ranted, insulted, and complained about every single Lebanese politician that has been mentioned.  Therefore, I am not a hypocrite. 

          Not acknowledging the suffering of others? That’s really insulting man. You don’t even know me, man. 

          I am only a racist based on your generalizations, but not on your facts.  Hell, even though I disagree with alot of your comments and your lack of sympathy on some things I put my heart into, i’d never call you a racist, Eblashko.

          Brought up to hate Israel? You don’t even know my parents. They always told me to ignore all the anti-semitism that exists in lebanon and to never criticize an ethnic group or religion, but a political ideology which puts a negative spin on it…they told me to never support extremism.  This is why I never insult religions or ethnic groups. Criticizing a political ideology is therefore not racist.  You have no right to generalize my upbringing nor generalize the upbringing of an entire region.  The Middle East is NOWHERE near perfect, but it’s not as barbaric as you put it out to be.

          I have many Jewish and Israeli friends who I treat and respect equally.  You can assume all you want, but you don’t know me. The only person here who truly knows me and can judge me is @Hannibal:disqus .

          On your last comment, like I said, I always criticize Lebanon’s politicians and for their lack of action to regain that territory.  Well, if Israel is the only democracy in the middle east as many say and if it champions human rights and justice, then it would return the land ebcause it violates international law.

          *I’m really disappointed with your response. We’ve had lots of constructive and interesting debates, and I do respect you, despite our differences.  To be called a racist and to be insulted based on my upbringing based on the fact that I’m Lebanese and that I’ve been “taught to hate Israel”.  That’s disgusting. I always talk about how I judge people based on teh content of their character and not their background.  You don’t even know me, yet you make all these statements about me based on a forum that talks about LEBANESE politics.  If this were an international political forum I’d be talking LOTS about the Russians and Chinese.

        2. Hannibal Avatar
          Hannibal

          I know Kareem very well and he is really a good person. He has friends from all facets of humanity and sects. He is a peace-loving individual and did not deserve your comments at all.
          It is also not fair to lump all the Lebanese into one category and for a learned person like yourself you should know who pulls the strings in Lebanon. I give you a hint: It is not the Lebanese people…

      4. Avatar
        Anonymous

        Sorry if the last message was harsh. I didn’t mean to offend or upset you at all. I don’t doubt your true commitment to human rights or believe that you have any ill feelings against my people or any people. I only wrote what I wrote because based on your previous posts you seem like a level-headed guy, who has said that you’d be willing to pressure your government, through protests or whatever, to take certain actions.

        You may be against some of the policies of the Israeli government. So am I and so are may other patriotic Israelis, as I’m sure you know. But that doesn’t mean that I think all Israeli citizens should be collectively punished. You’ve said in previous posts that if Israel were to give up the territories, then you’d pressure your government to make peace with Israel. But why wait? What do Israeli policies or disputed territories have to do with me or you? Neither of us live there. You accuse me of generalizations when I am being generalized against by Lebanon by not being allowed to come visit your beautiful country simply because of my citizenship.

        And as far as how you were raised in Lebanon, I didn’t mean any insult to your parents, but just to point out the overwhelming atmosphere of hatred towards Israel in Lebanon as a whole. You said yourself that your parents tried to protect you from prevalent anti-Semitism in your country. Like here for example, I like to consider myself pretty progressive, both pro-Israel and pro-Palestine, but sometimes, whenever a Palestinian terrorist commits an atrocity or another rocket bombards my country, I can’t even help but fall into the abyss of anti-Arab, populist fervor, and might catch myself thinking “ugh, those f*cking Arabs!” even for a second, before I remind myself that that kind of thinking, apart from not only being disgusting, won’t bring the solution to the conflict any sooner. It’s not how I feel in my heart, but it’s an underlying substratum of the culture here, much like anti-Israel feelings in Lebanon, as your parents warned you.

        You know I think the core of this disagree disagreement is our view of generalizations. In a previous post, you argued with me that not all Palestinians want to continue fighting, citing Darwish and Palestinians you’ve met as your example. And even though the majority of Palestinians, by voting for Hamas, demonstrated that they weren’t willing to make peace with Israel, you refuse to acknowledge the severity of the evil will of the many simply because of the goodwill of the few.

        You have to understand what I see. The world was pretty pro-Israel from the 40’s until the 90’s, and every single Israeli cabinet except one from the state’s inception until 1992 was left wing, pro-peace, and always willing to negotiate. It was Arafat who refused to negotiate. But then the second intifada happened (because Arafat refused the generous Camp David Proposal) and all of a sudden Israel, in the eyes of the world, became the bad guy, simply for doing the best it could to protect its citizens from a VERY REAL threat by suppressing an extremely violent and hostile populace. I was young, but I remember the shock, as every single friend we had in the world except America abandoned us on one end while Palestinians were blowing themselves up on buses on the other end. (I’m no psychologist, but I’d guess that this reminded people of the pogroms and the  holocaust, when the world was silent, and of the post-holocaust years, when the British wouldn’t let us return home to Israel even after the injustice and horror we’d suffered in the diaspora). This caused a huge, terrible, and ongoing rightward shift in Israeli public opinion, which in the face of what we percieve as unfair policy against us, continues to this day. Abbass’s rejection of Olmert’s proposal, which gave him everything he asked for ( ’67 borders, 1:1 swaps, and Jerusalem partition) was just the nail in the coffin.

        So before you “generalize” Israel as this terrible, evil thing, why don’t you ask yourself how Netanyahu was able to win the last election. How could we chose someone who is so blatantly against the prevailing world opinion about peace? What did he offer Israeli voters that Olmert didn’t deliver? Netanyahu’s message is simple and Lieberman’s even more simple. If the world turns their backs on you, then you turn you back on the world. They praise us for withdrawing troops and settlers from Gaza, but are silent in the wake of over 8,000 rockets fired from Gaza, and then condemn us for trying to protect ourselves from those rockets. Israel felt betrayed, and voted accordingly, as any threatened animal would when pushed into a corner, and as Palestinians did when they voted for Hamas.

        You want to see some action on the ground towards peace? I’ve said it on this site a million times. Give the disillusioned  Israelis a reason to believe in it. Hit us with sanctions or boycotts, suicide or bus bombs, and then see how the country votes. Or hit us with an outstretched hand, a promise of peace, a reason to stop being scared, and I promise you, you’ll like the results.

    2. Avatar
      Anonymous

      I don’t think it can be trusted. It ruled out Israel right off the bat. How can you rule someone out before you start investigating? Especially a country at war with the one in question. There have also been many leaks to the media. All in all, I don’t think it can be trusted and I would much rather see a Lebanese inquiry instead of an international one.

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